Story:
Forget your people – real leaders act on the system

Dear John,

Great that you have posted a story here! I have been following your work for about 5 years now and I really feel that if someone deserves a prize for management innovation, it is you and the team of people you work with.

Best regards,

Mireille Jansma

More video and examples - but brilliant

I used to work in the Uk public sector and after I came across John Seddon's work it transformed how I viewed management and work.

Ever since them I have been learning about a radically exciting and proven approach and method that helps organisations study their organisation as a system instead of focusing change upon people (targets, one-to-ones etc). The method that Seddon has pioneered helps organisations to transform the experience of customers and services users sustainably.

It has been a privilege to be deeply involved in this work.

I have read a few books on systems thinking and it relates to the work of training the mind for mindfulness- greater awareness, nonjudgemental view and compassion.
Mindfulness skill training allows for the shift of an open awareness and interconnectedness that systems thinkers have.

Hi Marga,

Did you watch this video? You may like it, although the porte is a bit different from your idea of training minds to mindfulness. http://vimeo.com/10278907

Best, Mireille

Outlining how people get the desire to change is probably the key element in transformation efforts. If we are able to determine how that is transition happens in people's mind - from linear to systemic approach - then the impact will be much bigger.

What I especially like about this keen story is the way leaders held on and broke through the barriers to innovation. Thanks for sharing its delightful success for innovators globally! Interestingly, research now suggests that human brains come equipped with mirror neurons - so that folks emulate what they see around them. While that's sad for the tired traditions that hold innovation back - it's terrific for breakthroughs like you describe here.

Have you considered how your work might help to move resources from places that hold onto broken systems, in ways that promote and foster innovative new approaches such as those listed here?

Very cool approach but it all starts with listening to your customers. To make his point the author downplays the importance of people but nothing good or bad will happen without them!

A delightful story. And that is because the leader had the courage to progress it to a happy ending. Most leaders, even after getting the right idea, would have submitted to the measurement and reward system, as indeed Mr. Buckwell's colleagues did. Shows that knowing the way is not enough. The energy to follow it is essential.

In the three step 'Check - Plan - Do' method recommended may I suggest a fourth step called 'Feedback'. Not only is Feedback the heart of a control system for getting what one wants but the word itself focuses activity on the results desired instead of some 'intelligent' thinking. I acknowledge elements of ‘Feedback’ have already been incorporated in the Plan step with thoughts like ‘measures’, ‘improve performance’ and ‘consequences’ but they cannot precede the third step ‘Do’ unless “Feedback’ is incorporated. The conceptual element of Feedback would theoretically raise it over the Define-Measure-Analyze-Design-Verify methodology of Six Sigma.

Conceptually, there is a similarity between Nayantara’s Barrier 'The Need to Progress From People To Their Knowledge' (http://www.managementexchange.com/barrier/need-progress-people-their-kno...) and this story. Both are on the theme that people muddle reality and a System, powered by reliable energy, is needed to emerge the reality consistently. However, while John’s System – Vanguard method - deals with transactions her concept refers to interactions. As the creator of the System emphasized by Nayantara, I would like to add that there is a bridge between John’s transaction System and her interaction System: the exceptions of John’s System would be dealt with by her System concept.

It is often said that the quality of new thinking can be judged by the amount of opposition it receives. So good news for John Seddon that within hours of this entry, a John Doe pops up!

I worked in LA Housing with a deeply incurious maintenance dept, delicate attempts were made to tweak, and were thwarted by those resistant to change, improvement, delivering a better service and having happy customers and staff. Portsmouth City Council deserve acknowledgment for being 'curious' enough to find a better way.

We also have a housing department that has used Vanguard to transform its services. We started after Portsmouth so are a little behind them, but we too have vastly improved services; for example our average time to complete a repair was 40 days and now is 11. We have also saved money at the same time and have staff that are enthusiastic and engaged with the job of making their work better. So yes John, people do pay for this and it is worth it.
Paul Buxton

Wish I had known about John Seddon when I was running a Local Authority revenues division then I could have persuaded my managers that what I was thinking was right and I wouldn.t have been called a maverick, out of step with the inefficient way local government was being run.

Keep going John. We are getting there.

Frank Wilde

"Hardly profound stuff"? I beg to differ. I have
worked in public sector housing for almost 10 years
and was lucky enough to participate in a Vanguard lead
project to improve services for residents. As soon
as we reached "Do" I saw an immediate impact on
residents' lives for the better, less confusion and
more valuable work. The effect on staff was a little stressful at first
because immediate supervisors were not on board
and had not gone on the journey from "Check".
But as a customer services officer on the front line
I felt empowered and able to get things done for sometimes
very vulnerable people in dire need, which the system would
not previously have helped quickly or easily.
Might not seem profound to you, might not look profound on paper,
but the difference in people's lives was huge and the cost in both
time and money fell dramatically
for the organisation.

More to the point the mindset changed. You can't put a price on that.

I am lucky enough to work with Owen and been on the journey with him. It is true to say that our services and thinking have been transformed in the last four years. As the housing manager for the service there have been many counter intuitive moments and there are elements of our service which continue to challenge colleagues and inspectors alike (imagine for a second having no pre-void inspection and seeing an empty property for the first time with the prospective tenant, imagine a cleaning service with no specification or an out of hours service where you get the same service you would get during office hours). I always thought I was customer focussed but have had the opportunity to use the method and review our rental income system and now truly understand what customer focus really means. This method provides the opportunity to understand the real performance of a system from a customers perspectivce and provides the foundation to transform services by designing them to meet the demands your customers place on your service. The change in thinking is the most challenging but the distinction between this method and other methods is that they change the system but dont grip the thinking or culture of an organisation. With Owens leadership and the application of the method we have achieved more in the last four years than ever before. I couldnt return to my old management practices and fortunately sense a momentum building in government that supports this method in the public sector .... I just hope more leaders and managers use it to unlock the true efficiencies within thier organisations.

"Hardly profound stuff" says the brave 'John Doe'. Firstly - why? Where's your argument?
Secondly - actually it has a profound effect on the people receiving housing services as well as those delivering them. Service users get a service that works, and makes some sense. This is so good a service many had suggested just it just wasn't possible for a public sector organisation. Those delivering a service are finally doing work that makes sense, makes a difference, makes customers happy, and provides job satisfaction because the ludicrous and insane target based, hierarchical command and control structures are dismantled. And it all costs less to the tax payer!

It is also represents a new philosophical paradigm, which apparently is not visible from where our John Doe stands - which is almost certainly deep in the bowels of the old paradigm with its tacit acceptance of crusty old management ideology, and its blind faith in hierarchical control and command.
Here's a chance for you John Doe, coming blinking into the light - it'll hurt your eyes at first but you'll soon realise you had never really seen the world before. In your cave everything you knew to be real was in fact an illusion, a trick of the light.

So apart from helping those that need most help, liberating those that want to help (to remove the shackles that prevented them being able to help), entirely changing the way we think about management and organisations and reflecting a wider understanding that our organsiations, society, politics, ecology and universe are interconnected systems and systems of systems - this is hardly profound stuff.....if you happen to be profoundly stupid!

Its so easy for me to tell that the approach in this story is a successful one as while reading it I found myself jealous of the good people of Portsmouth. I now want to forward this on to quite a few companies and services of which I am a customer. Thanks for sharing this.

I have enjoyed reading this.

" It is normal for managers to design services with no knowledge of what is really going on at the interface between staff and customer."

I work in a foreign university where, in effect, I have been wanting the student learning experience to be put at the centre of political decisions.

Whilst I still bristle at the idea of a student being thought of as a customer, the point holds good. All our language teaching and resource provision is only worth anything if the students' learning is somehow improved. Perhaps not such a revolutionary idea in the UK, but on the Old Continent, egos, hierarchies and a wholly different view of the status of the university and the teacher are my daily lot.

Still learning and trying to get over character clashes to see the wood for the trees.

I have a similar expereince to Frank Wilde.

As an ex director of housing (also health and planning) I fought hard to get rid of targets and to provide a truly customer facing (and professional) service. (The CIH was very supportive of this.) Unfortunately, the Chief Executive and politicains were wedded to tagets etc. and, even though I fought very hard (almost on my own), I lost! (in 1992) I feel as Frank does. If only I had then known about John's Vanguard, I would certainly have found some way of getting it in to back me up in my battle! The main problem seems to be that, at first, it is counter-intuitive, especially to politicians because it involves trusting directors and other leader/managers. In my case the (Labour) politicians wanted to do the managing! Anyway, all a long time ago and it is very reassuring to know that now, at least, support is available for those prepared to 'think' more deeply than silly targets etc.

Thanks for that John.

David

This is very clever, particularly the way the repairs contractors work. I have never heard of a customer being able to choose when they get the repair done. How can this be cheaper?

This sounds like exactly the kind of innovation this forum was designed to unearth.

Well done Owen you are a true leader!

It takes guts and b*lls to redesign a service not because the Vanguard methodology of Systems Thinking is difficult to do or understand it is because traditional management thinking and training teaches managers to only think in a command & control way. You have to unlearn this disabling command & control management thinking and then learn how to redesign the system from a customer perspective using the systems thinking methodology. For managers to do this requires stamina and great leadership as many CEO’s, Managing Directors and Financial Directors are obsessed with targets and they just don’t see or don’t want to see anything that takes this crutch away from them so keeping them happy while you do this is challenging.

As someone that has been on the roller coaster of an systems thinking intervention all I can say is that it was a fantastic journey with some great highs in seeing how we can deliver exceptional customer service and some lows when I saw just how stupid some of the things I had done in targeting front line staff that caused the exact opposite of what I was trying to achieve. A valuable lesson learnt thank you Stuart Corrigan, Vanguard Scotland.

Congratulations John in developing your methodology and for sharing this great story with us and congratulations to Owen and his front line team in making it happen and we shouldn’t forget the Vanguard consultants who were on hand with help and advice.

I am sure that we all look forward to reading more stories like this one that will save the public sector millions of pounds something we definitely need in these challenging economic times also, it not a bad way of working in the private sector!

A brilliant example of innovation in the public sector. This is genius!

This is very interesting. I live in in a place where we have nothing like this.

I know we dont have this in my local authority (north tyneside) as I keep getting adverts through the letterbox telling me how good the council is, but I can't see that from anything they do, seems like they are fibbing.
If only they spent half the amount of time or effort on systems thinking instead of "engaging" with me, i might just feel i was getting that value for money they keep going on about.

A lot of the stories and hacks on here focus on the people -as if they need something doing to them.

The assumption in this story is that the people are already good enough - they do not need coaching, mentoring, empowering or inspiring.

It reminds me of the Frederick Hertzberg quote, "If you want people to do a good job, give them a good job to do".